Topic: *_in_anus to *_in_ass [BUR]

The bulk update request #4783 is pending approval.

create alias planet_in_anus (47) -> planet_in_ass (0)
create alias body_in_anus (627) -> body_in_ass (9)
create alias head_in_anus (352) -> head_in_ass (482)
create alias plant_in_anus (295) -> plant_in_ass (0)
create alias electrode_in_anus (1) -> electrode_in_ass (122)
create alias muzzle_in_anus (176) -> muzzle_in_ass (0)
create alias glue_in_anus (0) -> glue_in_ass (0)
create alias clothing_in_anus (15) -> clothing_in_ass (0)
create alias tentacle_in_anus (41) -> tentacle_in_ass (6962)
create alias dildo_in_anus (0) -> dildo_in_ass (18824)
create alias tail_in_anus (1) -> tail_in_ass (2353)

Reason: The vast majority of tags seem to use *_in_ass, and the few that use _in_anus seem to use it to mean exactly the same thing. head_in_ass and head_in_anus are currently simultaneously used, with nearly identical wiki articles. body_in_ass already has a wiki article but is not currently used.

Since creating this, I learned how to do a proper tag search, so added a few more. Only one I didn't do was anus_in_anus, because I have no idea what to do with that one.

Saves one letter, but doesn't change meaning. Hmm. Shorter spelling wins!

I think *_in_ass introduces too much ambiguity, where it can get mixed up with something being between_cheeks, instead of actually being anally inserted. head in ass is especially problematic, because it can, and does, get mixed up with characters who are being facesat, or rimming, or being smothered between another character's butt cheeks, and not actually having their head inserted into the anus of another character.

-1 even if it's going against the tide, I think tags should be less ambiguous, not more ambiguous just because of precedence. The *_in_anus tags would eliminate all ambiguity.

maplebytes said:

I'd be fine with the aliases going the other way, but I do believe that they are necessary. It's currently way too easy to choose the wrong one; I often use them incorrectly, and only realize after posting and going through the list of tags.
That doesn't seem to be unique to me, with the existence of some of these.

However, 'ass' does seem to be pretty established on this site. Going the other way would involve a much larger BUR, involving tags with way more uses such as cum_in_ass, penis_in_ass, and just about everything else in https://e621.net/tags?search%5Bname_matches%5D=*_in_ass. Would that actually be better?

I am very much in favor of keeping it as *_in_ass. It's been that way for years, and I really don't think that many people are confused by it for it to be worth the technical effort required for moving all these tags. If somebody will actually take the time to create the hundreds of BURs necessary to move all of these, I'll actually take the suggestion seriously.

If somebody is using head_in_ass for rimming they're already clearly having problems understanding English language because the word in doesn't apply at all either, so I have my doubts that changing "ass" to "anus" is going to change a thing.

The anus is just the opening, so if we were actually following this train of logic the tag should really be *_in_rectum.

maplebytes said:
I think *_in_ass introduces too much ambiguity, where it can get mixed up with something being between_cheeks, instead of actually being anally inserted. head in ass is especially problematic, because it can, and does, get mixed up with characters who are being facesat, or rimming, or being smothered between another character's butt cheeks, and not actually having their head inserted into the anus of another character.

I feel the same way. The aliases should at least be flipped, since *_in_anus is clearer. We already use anus and butt for the parts of a character's rear-end, since ass (which has been aliased to butt) is more ambiguous about whether it's talking about the buttcheeks, or anus/sphincter specifically. penis_in_ass could be taken for anal_penetration as much as hot_dogging, for instance (hot_dogging penis_in_ass has about 4 pages of results currently, some of which are certainly mixing the two up).

faucet said:
If somebody is using head_in_ass for rimming they're already clearly having problems understanding English language because the word in doesn't apply at all either, so I have my doubts that changing "ass" to "anus" is going to change a thing.

When rimming, a character's head or face is often between the buttcheeks of another character, which in turn can be considered head_in_ass when ass=butt.

Created topic #39172, if you really want it to go the other way. Not entirely sure how to do large BURs like that though, where future parts rely on previous ones.

scth said:
Created topic #39172, if you really want it to go the other way. Not entirely sure how to do large BURs like that though, where future parts rely on previous ones.

If you want to reverse the aliasing, you might want to "reject" this BUR, unless you're setting this up to see which one gets more votes? It might confuse admins trying to approve these BURs.

maplebytes said:
If you want to reverse the aliasing, you might want to "reject" this BUR, unless you're setting this up to see which one gets more votes? It might confuse admins trying to approve these BURs.

I don't have any strong opinion on which way is better, so I'm just seeing which gets more support.

maplebytes said:
If you want to reverse the aliasing, you might want to "reject" this BUR, unless you're setting this up to see which one gets more votes? It might confuse admins trying to approve these BURs.

I would strongly recommend against rejecting this BUR (14 👍 2 👎) in favor of the other one (2 👍 2👎) which is incomplete anyway.

Admins aren't stupid, this isn't all that confusing.

maplebytes said:
I think *_in_ass introduces too much ambiguity, where it can get mixed up with something being between_cheeks, instead of actually being anally inserted. head in ass is especially problematic, because it can, and does, get mixed up with characters who are being facesat, or rimming, or being smothered between another character's butt cheeks, and not actually having their head inserted into the anus of another character.

-1 even if it's going against the tide, I think tags should be less ambiguous, not more ambiguous just because of precedence. The *_in_anus tags would eliminate all ambiguity.

watsit said:
I feel the same way. The aliases should at least be flipped, since *_in_anus is clearer. We already use anus and butt for the parts of a character's rear-end, since ass (which has been aliased to butt) is more ambiguous about whether it's talking about the buttcheeks, or anus/sphincter specifically. penis_in_ass could be taken for anal_penetration as much as hot_dogging, for instance (hot_dogging penis_in_ass has about 4 pages of results currently, some of which are certainly mixing the two up).

When rimming, a character's head or face is often between the buttcheeks of another character, which in turn can be considered head_in_ass when ass=butt.

To be honest, I'm not particularly happy with either situation.

I dislike the ambiguity of *_in_ass, for the reasons described by the both of you, but changing all of these tags to *_in_anus is hardly better. cum_in_anus, for instance, is both clunky to say and inaccurate more often than not. The anus is just the opening at the end of the digestive tract, and the cum is more often than not in the rectum or the colon rather than the anus. I don't mind cum_in_ass, because it's a non-technical word being used in a non-technical way. But cum_in_anus includes a technical word being used in a technically incorrect way. It's both inaccurate and unintuitive to say. At least "cum in ass" is intuitive to most people.

maplebytes said that *_in_anus would eliminate all ambiguity, but it just generates a different kind of ambiguity, where "anus" is being used to refer to all lower digestive anatomy for tags like cum_in_anus.

monroethelizard said:
To be honest, I'm not particularly happy with either situation.

I dislike the ambiguity of *_in_ass, for the reasons described by the both of you, but changing all of these tags to *_in_anus is hardly better. cum_in_anus, for instance, is both clunky to say and inaccurate more often than not. The anus is just the opening at the end of the digestive tract, and the cum is more often than not in the rectum or the colon rather than the anus. I don't mind cum_in_ass, because it's a non-technical word being used in a non-technical way. But cum_in_anus includes a technical word being used in a technically incorrect way. It's both inaccurate and unintuitive to say. At least "cum in ass" is intuitive to most people.

maplebytes said that *_in_anus would eliminate all ambiguity, but it just generates a different kind of ambiguity, where "anus" is being used to refer to all lower digestive anatomy for tags like cum_in_anus.

cum_in_ass is a big exception to *_in_anus being more appropriate, there are a lot of posts that show cum in between a character's cheeks as they're ejaculated into, or dripping out afterwards, we don't know if they were anally penetrated in the latter case.

The rest make sense as *_in_anus because the object or body part is being inserted via the anus, so it must be inherently in the anus. There are other tags that could be used if something is wholly inside of a character's rectum/colon

I'm astonished this still hasn't been resolved. Head_in_ass is particularly frustrating cus it's split so close to 50/50 i have to basically just search twice to see all the results for the same fetish.

pollexmessier said:
I'm astonished this still hasn't been resolved. Head_in_ass is particularly frustrating cus it's split so close to 50/50 i have to basically just search twice to see all the results for the same fetish.

You can use the or operator (~) to see both (~head_in_ass ~head_in_anus), but if you're already using it on another group of search terms...

Also you can bring up AIBURs in Are there any simple implications, aliases, or BURs that you want to bump back up? to bring staff attention to it

scth said:
The bulk update request #4783 is pending approval.

create alias planet_in_anus (47) -> planet_in_ass (0)
create alias body_in_anus (627) -> body_in_ass (9)
create alias head_in_anus (352) -> head_in_ass (482)
create alias plant_in_anus (295) -> plant_in_ass (0)
create alias electrode_in_anus (1) -> electrode_in_ass (122)
create alias muzzle_in_anus (176) -> muzzle_in_ass (0)
create alias glue_in_anus (0) -> glue_in_ass (0)
create alias clothing_in_anus (15) -> clothing_in_ass (0)
create alias tentacle_in_anus (41) -> tentacle_in_ass (6962)
create alias dildo_in_anus (0) -> dildo_in_ass (18824)
create alias tail_in_anus (1) -> tail_in_ass (2353)

Reason: The vast majority of tags seem to use *_in_ass, and the few that use _in_anus seem to use it to mean exactly the same thing. head_in_ass and head_in_anus are currently simultaneously used, with nearly identical wiki articles. body_in_ass already has a wiki article but is not currently used.

anus implies sphincter detail where ass does not. This is even evident in generations from ai models trained on this site. They will strongly tend to generate depictions that lack detail on the anus with dildo in ass. But dildo in anus will come with detail. Of course there are tags for detail, but those tags tend to capture exceptional detail. Ass serves as a term that tends to capture to location without evoking as much mental thought toward the detail, while anus always does.

I've personally tagged many of those head_in_ass and head_in_anus using this guiding principle. This change would negative some of my personal efforts over the last couple years and mildly increase the challenge of searching with the intention of finding head in ass without as much sphincter detail but more cheek detail with potential sphincter occlusion