Topic: Kissing BUR (implications)

The bulk update request #3459 is pending approval.

Reason: All of these should imply kissing. This definitely isn't all of them, but it's all the ones I can fit. There are also aliases that need to be created, which I made as a seperate BUR for due to lack of room as topic #35812.

pikarobo said:
create implication kisses (46) -> kissing (46776)
create implication smooch (100) -> kissing (46776)
...
create implication kiss_on_lips (889) -> kissing (46776)

These seem like they should be aliases, not implications.

pikarobo said:
create implication kissing_tip (37) -> kissing (46776)

Sounds ambiguous. What tip? Finger tip? Toe tip? Nose tip? Penis tip?

pikarobo said:
create implication kissing_with_both_sets_of_lips (72) -> kissing (46776)

I think something like kissing_tribadism works better here, as it's less confusing (initially thought it was some kind of contortionist act, where a character's lips and labia were "kissing" the same spot of another character).

pikarobo said:
create implication pussy_kiss (9) -> kissing (46776)

Isn't that just a form of cunnilingus?

watsit said:
These seem like they should be aliases, not implications.

The first one should be an alias, I'll fix that.
The second one I was hoping could be referred to the smooch sound effect, as I've seen it used as that before. Maybe rename it to "Smooch_(sound)" and cull out the picture that don't do that. Luckily, the tag is small enough where I can do that manually.
The third one I'll defend. While it's definitely the first thing most people think of for "kissing", on my research, I saw that it's surprisingly pretty rare, at least in the overall use of the tag; most pics using the tag are either french_kissing (which mostly doesn't count) or imminent_kissing. Not to mention there are tags for hands, neck, etc. So why should this be different? I can make a wiki article saying that the tag is specifically for unambiguous mouth-to-mouth contact.

watsit said:
Sounds ambiguous. What tip? Finger tip? Toe tip? Nose tip? Penis tip?

I didn't make the tag, but it's most likely referring to penis tip. Maybe a bulk update to make that obvious?

watsit said:
I think something like kissing_tribadism works better here, as it's less confusing (initially thought it was some kind of contortionist act, where a character's lips and labia were "kissing" the same spot of another character).

Again, I just gathered what I found. I'll leave that to the mods whether they want to shorten that or make one or the other an alias.

watsit said:
Isn't that just a form of cunnilingus?

I guess 99% of the time it is, but it mostly depends on the picture.

pikarobo said:
The second one I was hoping could be referred to the smooch sound effect, as I've seen it used as that before. Maybe rename it to "Smooch_(sound)" and cull out the picture that don't do that. Luckily, the tag is small enough where I can do that manually.

I'm not a fan of tagging the words that appear in the image text. But in either case, a kissing sound effect doesn't necessitate actual kissing being visible. It should either be aliased to kissing if it's primarily used as meaning that, or be given a _(sound_effect) suffix, but in either case shouldn't implicate kissing.

pikarobo said:
The third one I'll defend. While it's definitely the first thing most people think of for "kissing", on my research, I saw that it's surprisingly pretty rare, at least in the overall use of the tag; most pics using the tag are either french_kissing (which mostly doesn't count) or imminent_kissing. Not to mention there are tags for hands, neck, etc. So why should this be different? I can make a wiki article saying that the tag is specifically for unambiguous mouth-to-mouth contact.

imminent_kissing is distinct from kissing and shouldn't be tagged together (just like imminent_sex and sex shouldn't be tagged together). Either it's about to happen, in which case they're not yet kissing and shouldn't be tagged as kissing, or it is happening and no longer imminent. French kissing can very much include on-the-lips, and I'm not sure posts should be tagged french_kissing if the lips aren't at least very close to touching.

There are different spots on the body a character can kiss, but if a significant majority of kissing is on the lips, it's probably not worth tagging separately. Just like how white sclera is the most common sclera color by a significant margin, so it's been aliased away; if kiss_on_lips is similarly the most common by a significant margin, there's no need to tag it specifically since the search results for kissing and kiss_on_lips would be near identical.

pikarobo said:
I didn't make the tag, but it's most likely referring to penis tip. Maybe a bulk update to make that obvious?

Either a mass update, or manually retagging images with it (there's only 48 currently) using a clearer name. Perhaps kissing_penis_tip.

pikarobo said:
Again, I just gathered what I found. I'll leave that to the mods whether they want to shorten that or make one or the other an alias.

Mods won't generally take the initiative to rename tags on their own. And users trying to make an alias request to use a better name will have to do multiple requests (with more waiting) if the tag already has implications associated with it. So it's better to do it right the first time instead of leaving more work to undo and redo the implications along with an alias later.

pikarobo said:
I guess 99% of the time it is, but it mostly depends on the picture.

In what cases wouldn't it be?

Alrighty, I updated with most of the advice you've given (I'll manually clean the images later), though I'd like to keep pussy kiss, since I kind of see it distinct enough to have its own tag and it already has a wiki page. Except for the second point.
I just wanted to be more clear on that; on all of the images I've come across and manually tagged with kiss on lips, I was bringing up how it was surprisingly not as common here as one would think. Like I noted, french kissing is the one by far the most common (+ 12K). Sure, I haven't come across all of them, but statistically from what I've come across so far, I don't think it would be that much higher even if I were to manually search through and add every sub tag to every pic that's missing them (keep in mind all the others that are also not tagged.)

Counting ones that overlap, french kissing is about 1/3 of all of them on e621, while I would estimate kiss on lips (unambiguous mouth-sealed contact) would be around 1/5th - 1/6th of them if it was hypothetically tagged, maybe less. After all, it's a system based on what I see, and from what I can find lip-on-lip contact is comparatively pretty low. Sometimes you have to take a closer look and see a lot of them just barely have their faces hovering over.